Gun Bucket List

[BarryinIN]

I've heard people talking about "bucket lists" lately, as in, a list of things you would like to do or own before kicking the bucket.

Do you have a "firearm bucket list"? Things you want to own before you die, or a list of what you want if you should get a bunch of money dumped on you somehow?

If you have one, what is on it?

I have a list. A real list, written down on paper. It has some realistic items and some pretty pie in the sky extravagant ones.

I think a list is a great thing to have. I came into a little money a couple of years ago, and after taking care of some more sensible things, I got to check a few items off the list. I am convinced that if not for having that list, I would have walked into the first gun shop and bought something or somethings that would have ate up the money. But having the list, I was able to control myself and take the time to find some that I really wanted. Somebody better disciplined might not need that, but I'm sure it helped me.

Of course, once I checked off some items, I replaced them with some more.

My list, in no particular order:

-I want an older custom 1911 or two. Something from one of the classic smiths like Armand Swenson or Jim Boland.

Similar to that, I really want a mini Browning HiPower that Austin Behlert used to make by cutting the slide and frame of HPs. I foolishly passed one up about 10-12 years ago for $650 or so. That sounds cheap, but that was double what a used BHP went for at the time. I still kick myself though.

-Another Bren Ten. I had one, traded it off, but wish I had another. Very interesting gun. My opinion is that it was a good design, poorly executed.

-BAR. I think they are the cat's meow. I'd like a belt fed MG since I've never had one, and think the M1919 Browning .30 cal is nice, the MG42 might be the most fun to shoot, and the Vickers is so classy looking. But before any of them though, I think I'd get a BAR. Maybe I'm just too lazy to set up a belt fed.

-A custom 1903 Springfield sporter from around the 1920s. Something like the ones Griffin and Howe or Sedley made. In 30-06 please.

A second classic custom bolt gun would be nice. A sporterized M1917 in a heavier caliber. Not too heavy. Caliber .35 Whelen would be good.

-Remington Model 8 or 81. .30 or .35 Remington or .300 Savage. Just another neat old classic sporting rifle. And John Browning creation.

-Double rifle. No good reason. Not a freakishly big one like a .600 or .700 Nitro, but something from 375 H&H to .470 caliber.

-Actually, I could see a lot of sense in a Drilling in maybe 12 ga/.30-06 or 12/.308.

-Krag. I like them anyway, and have a gap in my collection between the Trapdoor and 1903.

-Johnson M1941 LMG. I have a Johnson semiauto rifle, and it has some interesting and neat points, but the LMG has even more. Melvin Johnson used to demonstrate the LMG by holding it out in front of him one handed and emptying a mag into a target. Not bad for a rifle in the class of the BAR but a LOT lighter.

Some people take Johnson rifle receivers and LMG parts and combine them to make a semiauto replica, and I'd gladly take one of those.

-M3 Grease Gun. They look like heck, but I've wanted one since seeing Steve McQueen using one in "[censored] is For Heroes" one Sunday when I was a kid.

-Norrell 10-22 trigger pack. Drop-in full auto conversion for 10-22s. Add a suppressed barrel, and you have F-U-N!

-Tanker Garand. I've got Garands, but no tanker. There is a guy in Michigan making them just a little shorter than the usual tankers. I was ready to send one off to him about a year ago, but found something else I thought I needed.

-High Standard Olympic. I had the start of a High Standard collection going when they were in the price range of Ruger .22 autos, before people discovered the ripe market and prices went up. I always thought the early Olympic was neat looking, and captured a lot of "High Standardness" of that era.

-Ruger 44 Carbine. The old semiauto they dropped in 1985, not the Mini14-looking Deerfield. I had one and traded it. I want another. Handy thing, that little Ruger.

-Early S&W N-frames. A Triple Lock would be nice, but that's a lot to ask for even on a dream list. Any nice one in a big bore (especially .44 Special) would be good.

-Colt New Service .44 Special or 45 Colt. I have one in 38WCF (38-40) that's a little tired looking. It both scratched the itch and made me want a nicer one. One in better shape in .44 Spl or 45 Colt would be real nice t have.

The M1909 (military version of the New Service in 45 Colt) would be fine too.

-Colt SAA. Two please. One in any caliber 38 WCF and up, with a 4-3/4" or 5-1/2" barrel for a handy, fun one. The other in .45 Colt and 7-1/2" barrel like the cavalry had (although many were cut down to 5-1/2").

-S&W Schofield. They just look cool to me. I'd want both a Schofield like the US Army had, and one of the Russian .44s. The Schofield because it's a US martial arm, and the Russian because they look so Victorian.

-I'd like a Winchester Highwall or two also. A heavy one in 45-70 or 45-90 and medium weight in 38-55. Most people would want a Sharps and I can see that, but being a fan of that John Browning fellow, I'd like his single shot.

-Winchester 1895. I have one (a Saddle Ring Carbine in .30 Army/.30-40 Krag) but it's pretty rough. I've taken an interest in the Spanish American War and the Rough Riders the past few years, and a lot of them used these, so I'd like another just like it but in better shape.

Another one in the long barreled Sporting Rifle version in the same caliber would be good. The Browning repro would probably be best here.

I'd like the Lyman #21 rear peep sight on the long one (that sight brings so much money, even in repros, it needs it's own place on the list).

-Winchester 1897 Trench Gun. I have several WWI and WWII guns, but no real issue shotguns. That's the one I want.

-Luger. Nothing rare or expensive like a long-barreled Artillery Model or .45 ACP prototype; just a Luger. OK, a Swiss one would be nice.

There you have it. That's what I want. Some are sensible and some ridiculous, but I like 'em all.

What's in your wallet? The list in your wallet, in your head, or wherever.

[BarryinIN]

And yes, a big reason I posted this was to sow some seeds in Pablo's mind. Since he's buying a new gun every other day, I thought I'd help him along. Nudge. Nudge.

[G-MAN]

My Gun Bucket List is evolving, though over the past year I have acquired a few that have been on the list since my teenage years.

Here are some that are still on there:

1. S&W Triple-Lock.

2. S&W Schofield

3. Winchester Model 71

4. Winchester Model 12

5. Remington Model 31

6. M14/M1A

7. SIG P210

8. S&W 1006

[Pablo]

I was just thinking about a Bren Ten.

BTW I'm going out to buy a used SS Ruger 357 tomorrow. Nothing at all exotic about it. Just looks old.

[G-MAN]

-Another Bren Ten. I had one, traded it off, but wish I had another. Very interesting gun. My opinion is that it was a good design, poorly executed.

I remember reading somewhere that the Bren Ten was basically a beefed up copy of the CZ-75 design. Is that accurate?

[Pablo]

And yes, a big reason I posted this was to sow some seeds in Pablo's mind. Since he's buying a new gun every other day, I thought I'd help him along. Nudge. Nudge.

Hey - you guys got me on this path. You are responsible.

Oh yeah loved the A. Rifleman art. on 1911's - the rat-tail file hammer finish!! I want one.

[BarryinIN]

Originally Posted By: BarryinIN

-Another Bren Ten. I had one, traded it off, but wish I had another. Very interesting gun. My opinion is that it was a good design, poorly executed.

I remember reading somewhere that the Bren Ten was basically a beefed up copy of the CZ-75 design. Is that accurate?

Yes and no. But mostly.

A book came out about three or four years ago called "Bren Ten: The Heir Apparent" by Ronald A. Carrillo, and it details the entire Bren Ten story and the events before and after. Great book, and worth reading even if one is not interested in Bren Tens in particular, just to see how hard it is to start manufacturing guns from nothing. Now when people say someone should start up a company to make _____ gun, I have to laugh. I didn't think it was easy before reading that book, and now think it would be easier to do just about anything. I have no great respect for Dornhaus & Dixon, but I now wonder how they got any guns made at all.

Anyway, the book tells all about the design.

It was based on the CZ-75, but I couldn't say it was a scaled-up CZ-75 or a CZ-75 with an alteration or two. It was a little more involved than that, but yes, it was definitely patterned after the CZ.

The trigger system might be a good example. It worked the same basic way in both guns, but was changed/altered/beefed up in the Bren so it would be a stretch to call it the same thing. Likewise, the grip shape is similar but a little different. The locking system is about the same, but the recoil spring arrangement was altered some. And so it went all through the gun.

One change was the safety location. When they showed a prototype to Jeff Cooper (who seems to have had less direct involvement in the design than legend allows) he wanted the safety moved. The prototype had it where it would be on a slightly scaled up CZ, but that put it where it felt just a little odd to a 1911 user. I can't remember now if it was slightly higher or slightly lower. Col Cooper wanted it to feel like a 1911 safety, so they agreed to move it, which turned out to be a much bigger challenge than they thought and caused them to practically start over on the entire lock work.

Then there were lesser changes like the slide top contours, auxiliary crossbolt safety, ability to turn a screw to prevent the mag from dropping completely out, etc.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Bren Ten actually had to be designed around the 45 ACP. This is something that isn't usually thought about, if widely known at all. That isn't a factor because of strength, but in dimensions- particularly height. The Bren Ten, as originally planned, would have been a slightly smaller gun and perhaps better overall.

This would later be a point of contention between Thomas Dornaus and Mike Dixon because one wanted to match it to the new 10mm cartridge, and the other wanted to have the ability to accept a .45 ACP conversion. Had it been designed solely around the 10mm, it would have been closer to CZ-75 size, in production sooner, and maybe have had a better chance at success. Or not.

Mine was a 45 ACP by the way. They made some on special order for a Chicago-area gunshop called "The Marksman Shop" in 45 ACP only, called the "Marksman Special". The serial numbers had an "MSM" prefix (I had serial number MSM217).

The Bren Ten was a really neat gun from a design standpoint, but could have been built better.

Dornhaus & Dixon used some unconventional (at the time) firearm manufacturing methods. Investment castings were used for the frame and slide, and although Ruger used it a lot, few others did at the time. They made a lot of small parts using the "Mould Forge" process...which is now known as Metal Injection Moulding- MIM. They subcontracted a lot of this work, and a lot of it wasn't very good. Everybody knows how the magazine subcontracting worked out.

There were a couple of slide failures in the Marksman Specials, and the gunshop that ordered and sold them had to track down the sold guns and have them Magnafluxed. They sent a bunch of guns back to D&D for bad slides, and there was a lot of suspicion that D&D put them on other guns and sold them.

Which was all too bad, because I think it was a good design. The gun felt great, with the CZ-like grip. It was no bigger than a 1911, and a couple of ounces lighter. I liked the sights a lot. The sights were easy to see, the rear was protected by being sunk into the slide, and it was adjustable for elevation but rugged because you locked it in place. Every single edge was slightly rounded for carry, before I saw "dehorning" done on anything else. It had clever little touches like a recoil spring guide that had a screwdriver tip that fit every screw on the gun, and the magazine floorplate shaped so it's "toe" fit the castellated barrel bushing.

They also had the best owners manual I've ever seen. I actually enjoyed reading it.

The best part was the trigger. I've heard they vary, but the trigger was wonderful on mine. The SA pull was good, but the DA was beautiful. I don't like DA autos, but I could have lived with this one just fine. The DA pull was like a PPC revolver. No kidding. I've never tried a DA auto trigger that was in the same universe, let alone ballpark.

I got mine in 1995, ten years after D&D evaporated. By dumb luck, I soon saw an ad for .45 ACP Bren Ten magazines in GunList, called, and it was the former owner of the Marksman Shop. He told me about the slide cracking/failures and that scared me away from shooting it. I wish now I had, just to say I did. I dried fired it to death because I couldn't resist that trigger.

If someone were to make them again, and make them well, I'd buy one in a second.

Vltor has been working on it, or so they say.

http://www.vltor.com/pistol.htm

http://vltor.wordpress.com/

http://www.sportingproducts.com/bren-ten.aspx

When they announced it, I had finished reading the Bren Ten book not long before and laughed at their time estimates. There are people on the Bren Ten forum who are coming unglued over the delay, but my view is: What did you expect? It's just now been three years. Besides never having built a gun before, Vltor is part of a military contractor who has all the work they can handle at the moment. An all-steel, single digit mag capacity 10mm is not the most popular handgun at the moment, and they aren't going to drop everything to make them because their General Manager thinks they are nifty.

Besides, from the time Colt announced the Delta Elite was returning until I found one in the gun shop was 2.5 years. All they had to do was to take their most popular gun, put in 10mm barrels and recoil springs, and mark the slides accordingly. That's a lot less work than going into the gun making business from scratch, and doing it by raising a dead gun design from the grave.

I want another, but what I want more is a new one, made right. I'm just not going to hold my breath waiting. If I ever see new-made Bren Tens are out, that's when I will worry about getting one.

[BarryinIN]

BTW I'm going out to buy a used SS Ruger 357 tomorrow. Nothing at all exotic about it. Just looks old.

Just yesterday I was reading a piece on .357/9mm Blackhawks that got me thinking. It was written by Skeeter Skelton over 40 years ago, but the points are still valid.

http://www.darkcanyon.net/handguns_by_skeeter_skelton_nov_1968.htm The third or fourth entry down.

Skeeter Skelton was my favorite gunwriter when I was a kid. Other kids wanted to be like Ken Stabler or Kareem Abdul Jabbar, but I wanted to be Skeeter Skelton. He is the reason I like the .44 Special today, the first thing I thought of when I bought a Lyman 358156 mould for the .357, why I still want a S&W 27 with 5" barrel, and why I took Spanish in high school (to help if I joined the Border Patrol like he did).

[Pablo]

Look at those prices!!

[steves]

I have owned every gun I have wanted to own if only till I found another one I thought I needed more.

[RebinPA]

1839 Enfield Tower, percussion .76 cal

1776 Charleyville flint .69 cal

My own cannon

[RebinPA]

I can cross Charleyville off the list. It was beautiful and fun.

[BarryinIN]

Nice gun...I mean, fusil.

[BarryinIN]

Add one.

FN SCAR 17S

The shop keeps getting them in.

I keep looking at them.

A friend bought a SCAR 16 (5.56) AND a SCAR 17 (7.62), and brought them to a match recently for show and tell, which helped a lot, thank you very much. The mag shortage was helping to hold me back, but they are showing up now. This guy bought like 18 of them. Great.

I went to the shop again today looking. He had a black one. I want FDE, but...

[BarryinIN]

And check one off.

Report coming later. Hint:

[Pablo]

You hound.

[BarryinIN]

Bowsy wowsy!

[jjjxlr8]

Nice!

I was fondling one of those (same color) last week. It was lighter weight than I expected.

Looking forward to a range report...

[BarryinIN]

Thanks!

The first time I handled one, I was surprised at the light weight too. I have seen figures vary from 7.25 to 8 lbs, so I weighed mine and got 7 lbs, 10 oz. For comparison, I weighed my Colt SP1 AR-15 (20") and it was 7 lbs, 2 oz. Exactly a half pound difference. Kinda puts things in perspective.

There is no comparison weight-wise to the AR10 I had, or to the LMT .308 that was in the rack next to the SCAR.

I also expected it to be muzzle heavy because of all the plastic in the back half, and the steel barrel, gas system, etc up front. If anything, it feels muzzle light to me.

Now I'm torn about optics. I was going to go light to keep the weight down. A friend put a new Elcan on his, which is pushing two pounds! Nice scope- really nice- but it made it a 9.5 pound rifle and kind of messed it up IMO.

So I wanted to go as light a I could there.

Then I shot it. The first group was with my cheap handloads using Lithuanian FMJ...and it shot 1.25" with me yanking one (1" even for 4), and the next group was five 168 Sierras in one inch even- again with me yanking one. The other four went into 5/8". It's hard to throw a red dot on when you know it's capable of that. I am thrilled to have that problem!

I couldn't match that today, but it still has me thinking. It's tempting to put a big scope on it. I will probably put something small (1-4x variable at the very most) but keep another, bigger, scope in QD rings zeroed to it. With the six-times variables out now (1-6X, 2-12X, etc) it might be possible get the cake and eat it too...but the better ones approach the rifle in cost.

The Trijicon TR-24 (1-4X with dual- tritium and fiber optic lighting a triangle) is looking good. I got to play with one once and it was nice. The triangle was useable as a red dot sight up close, while the triangle's tip made a fine aiming point for more precision.

I threw a Leupold 3.5-10X on as a temp scope. It's nice for the range but too big.

I need taller rings, that's for sure. I thought it wouldn't be as bad as an AR there, but it is. I'm using medium because that's what I have in picatinny QD thats not in use, and I'm all scrunched up.

[BarryinIN]

I just scratched one off the list and I'm putting another on.

How about a Steyr AUG?

There has been a rumor that there will be another attempt at US-made Steyr AUGs. It's gone to strong rumor to "we have pictures". The last try was with receivers made for Steyr by Sabre Defence, but that died when Sabre got in trouble with ATFE for not keeping track of their stuff. The receivers Sabre had made were finally released this summer and completed into rifles. They sold out quick.

There is a guy in SC (I think it is SC) named Pete Athens who is pretty much the AUG expert- supposedly Steyr asks him things. He has all kinds if AUG parts and goodies. He is ram rodding this and will be the distributors..

Receivers will be made by VLTOR, barrels by FN, and it will be assembled at Steyr's Trussville, AL place.

They have the first receivers in hand for testing. Barrels were a little slow coming from FN but they have them now.

They say mid-Sep availability.

Trigger improved over originals (it would be hard to to improve it).

Shooting for retail of $2099.

I sent an email yesterday.

[Pablo]

6.8SPC upper

[BarryinIN]

I look at the 6.8 now and then. I wouldn't hate one. I just hate to need to buy a bunch of stuff for a new (to me) caliber.

[BarryinIN]

Re: The new US-made Steyr AUG. I heard back from my email:

Hello Barry,

 

$1950 shipped as it comes from Steyr with 1 30 round mag & manual

 

$2000 shipped, PJA Special Deal Comes with 2 30 rnd mags, Steyr tactical case, sling, cleaning kit & muzzle cap 

 

Just received a few last week, we are taking preorders and shipping from the order of the pre order list.

 

No deposit required for preorder.

 

[BarryinIN]

I'm on the AUG list now.

[BarryinIN]

Add a few.

-Marlin 336 from the 50s or 60s. If all you've ever handled is recent production, the ones from back then are like a different rifle. .30-30 would be OK, and probably better, but I'd rather have a .35 Rem.

-S&W 17, aka K-22 before. My first handgun was a S&W 19. I wanted a 17/K-22 to go with it. I did own a used one for a few days, until I shot it and every case split. Some previous owner had the chambers reamed to .22 Magnum. They took it back and I applied the money toward a Ruger 44 auto carbine.

-S&W 65, 3" RB. Neat gun. Perhaps the ideal carry revolver in my opinion. Lots of 4" SBs out there, but fewer 3" SB. I had a 3" 65 for a while but traded it off thinking I could get another anytime because they were still in production then. I never did.

S&W 13, 3" RB- same thing. The 13 is prettier I think, but the 65 more practical.

-S&W 12, 2" RB. This is a bit eclectic. Most people don't know what it is. It's like a model 10 M&P, but with alum alloy frame. It makes a chunky but light 6-shot snubbie. Earlier versions had a special L-frame that was a little slimmer than usual in places just to shave an ounce or two.