Bolt Action .223 Rem for varmint shooting

[wwillson]

I'm considering a heavy barreled .223 for varmint/target shooting. I normally would shoot varmints with my Bushmaster Varminter, which is a great gun, but considering a possible scary looking gun ban in IL it's got me thinking.

Maybe a Mossberg MVP

Or a Savage

[BarryinIN]

At least you can probably find one. For a while there, the only new rifles my LGS had were .223 and 243 bolt actions.

I only know of one MVP owner. He seems really happy, and the latest short barreled version interests me a little, but I'd like to hear from more owners than just the one.

Savage of course has the accuracy reputation, at least in other calibers. I don't know of many .223s around, now that I think about it. It's been a while, but when I was shooting Highpower, a couple of guys tried them but the throats were realllllly long. A Sierra 69 seated so it was just in the case neck wouldn't come near the rifling. Accuracy was plenty good enough, but both guys were convinced they could do better with a shorter throat. I need to stress this was at least 10 years ago. It still might be worth researching to see what Savage .223s chambeds are cut now.

I've only had the one Savage bolt action, and I haven't had it quite a year. I'm still not sure about it. It is accurate. I have a test going now where infirebone round at a target each time I go to the range. Just one at this target. This is to tell me how the first shot consistency holds up in varying conditions. I've been doing this since December, and have I think 12 rounds in it. Ten are in one little hole. The other two touch. Not bad at all.

The action is not my favorite. It's not exactly smooth in operation, and the primary extraction bevel on the bolt handle is practically nonexistent so it makes an odd feel when opening. I found the Accu-Trigger took me a little getting used to.

Most of Savage's plastic stocks are throwaways, IMO, so figure in the cost of a replacement if getting one.

For a few years before they stopped making them, Winchester made a heavy barrel M70 .223 in a decent stock (HS Precision maybe) and using a 1-9 twist barrel. Some Highpower shooters bought these, mounted sights, a stripper clip guide, and a sling, and had a match rifle. I wish those were commonly available again.

[dnewton3]

My shootin' buddy nearby has a Kimber bolt action in .223 to match his .308; he did that on purpose to set the guns up identically so he would practice with the lesser expensive .223 and would have the same feel when transitioning to the .308.

If I read that link right, the Moss comes with a scope? Not a bad deal for $860. But for a gun purportedly so accuract, I'd wonder about the quality of the scope embedded in that price.

I think it's hard to beat the combination of savage accuracy with excellent accu-trigger and cost. Then add the scope of your choice.

[BarryinIN]

I need to update the following:

I have a test going now where I fire one round at a target each time I go to the range. Just one at this target. This is to tell me how the first shot consistency holds up in varying conditions. I've been doing this since December, and have I think 12 rounds in it. Ten are in one little hole. The other two touch. Not bad at all.

Since then, here is what has happened-

The good group continued, then I went to the range last week and that day's shot went not quite an inch to the right of the others. Curious.

Next time, the shot went a little farther right of that one. Great.

Next time, Monday, that day's shot went an inch to the LEFT of the group, or in other words, two inches left of the previous shot.

A friend of mine has basically the same rifle as mine except with a longer barrel and detachable box magazine. He gets the same thing. It will shoot like crazy then start throwing them an inch in any direction for a while, then snap back to the group. No particular reason we can find.

We think its the cheap throwaway stock. It has to be. It's just that neither of us have ponied up the dollars to replace ours to verify it.

I was pretty sure when I got mine that the cheaper Savage stock wasn't worth keeping. I just hate to spend $400-600 on a stock for a $600 gun.

Savage's better models have McMillan or HS Precision stocks and are the way to go if possible, IMO. It will be cheaper in the long run.

[2010_FX4]

I have quite a few varmint bolt actions--.221 Fireball, .223, .22-250, and a 6MM BR. They are all Remington 700s with Jewell triggers (the 6MM and .221 are custom rifles). I typically change the firing pin assembly as well (removing the "lock"). They have always been accurate and even with the changes, are typically affordable (not sure what you wish to spend and, of course, not counting the scope).

You may want to look at a Remington 700 Varmint SF (Stainless) or VLS (Blued) in .223; they are both top notch varmint rifles.

[BarryinIN]

A custom .221 rifle? Really? There are two of us?

(I had a Rem 600 rebarreled to .221 around 1988. I liked the Kimber 84 in .221, but they were well beyond my budget. So I naturally ended up spending more on that 600.)

[2010_FX4]

A custom .221 rifle? Really? There are two of us?

(I had a Rem 600 rebarreled to .221 around 1988. I liked the Kimber 84 in .221, but they were well beyond my budget. So I naturally ended up spending more on that 600.)

Yes, indeed! In 2002, Remington offered a Classic in .221 Fireball and I bought one, but could not bring myself to modify it (it has never been shot). So I bought a Remington action in .204 from a friend and had it totally reworked--blueprinted the action and bolt, Hart stainless fluted heavy barrel, Jewell trigger, fully bedded/blocked laminated stock. It is a tack driver and is intended to be passed down to my oldest son (he already shoots it and loves it). I am sure that I spent more than I should have, but it is heirloom quality and should last a very long time.

[BarryinIN]

I know what you mean. There have been a few of those 700 Classics I've wanted over the years (.221, .250 Sav, .300 H&H for starters) but I never even came one to getting one. For one thing, I rarely see one in the year's caliber until a year or two later, and for another, I'd want to use them a lot.

I made the 600 .221 as a "walking varmint rifle" with a fairly short medium weight 21" barrel. That's also exactly double the length of my XP-100 barrel. It never has shot as well as I'd like, but does OK. I had the barrel made by McGowen when it was still owned by Harry McGiwen, and I later learned he used a lot of student/apprentice work.

I'd like to have some more little .221s. The Ruger #3 always seemed like a likely candidate to me.

[2010_FX4]

For one thing, I rarely see one in the year's caliber until a year or two later, and for another, I'd want to use them a lot.

^^^ this! If memory serves, I did not receive my 2002 model until July of 2003. I think the thing that saved me from shooting it was all of the others that I have. My 6MM BR is a blast to shoot, but does have a little more recoil than I would like. However, it is less than the .220 Swift that it once was. It has a laminated stock and a heavy barrel; it is my favorite, but I still love those .223 and .221 rounds!

[BarryinIN]

I think the local shop had a .17 Rem one during its planned year, and that may be the only one I saw during the calendar year it was made for. Maybe the first year or two as they weren't gobbled up immediately, but I don't think so even then.

I wanted a Classic when it was regular production, but that never happened.

[2010_FX4]

I think the local shop had a .17 Rem one during its planned year, and that may be the only one I saw during the calendar year it was made for. Maybe the first year or two as they weren't gobbled up immediately, but I don't think so even then.

I wanted a Classic when it was regular production, but that never happened.

LOL - I forgot about the .17; 4200+FPS in a 26' barrel. I had to make one because there were none available. I was shooting 20 grain bullets that made the prairie dogs go *poof*. The wind does push them around a little bit though, but zero recoil. I have always wanted to shoot a .17 Fireball, now that would have to be a blast.

[BarryinIN]

I had a 700 BDL .17 Rem. It was a fun project for a while, but I'm not sure how useful it really was. Like you say, wind gave it fits. I had to bore brush it every so often to keep accuracy up.

I like how all the magazine article always talked about the .17 Rem as a nice round for more crowded areas because of the reduced noise. Yeah, reduced noise. It sounded like a .223 or any other cartridge burning ~25 grains of powder.

I used to sit an apple in front of a fence post and shoot the apple with the .17 Rem. The apple would simply disappear, but the post usually wouldn't have a mark on it.

That was fun, but after l'd shown a few people, its use was pretty much exhausted for me.

The wind blew it around, which was bad enough by itself, but unless shooting over/into the right surface it wouldn't kick up enough dust to see the impact. So I would know it was being blown, but usually couldn't tell how much in order to adjust the next shot! If there was to be any shooting much beyond 150 yards, I'd bring something else.

I have a .17 Mach IV, the .17 Fireball's predecessor. Mine is a Bullberry custom Contender barrel though, so it won't be hitting super high speeds. I don't remember the length offhand; an odd one for Contenders, like 11" or something. I would have ordered about a 15", but I didn't order it; I found it at a gun show for a deal. When i dreamed of .17 Mach IVs before, it was in little rifles, not even littler pistols.

I got it toward the end of a period of Contender interest, and about the time my old club's range closed, so I never did a lot with it. I only remember shooting it a couple of times. By the time the club got a new site, I had lost interest.

Mostly, I got brass fire formed. The Mach IV used a different shoulder angle than the .221 Fireball as I recall, and the shoulder needed blown out to fit the chamber. Until that was done, it shot horribly. I expect sub-par accuracy in that case, but roughly half or more of the bullets were key holing.

I spent at least two months gathering form dies, bullets lighter than the Rem and Hornady 25s I was using, and laying in more .221 brass, in order to shoot it twice and form a bunch of brass. Brass which I might be able to find 20 of right now.

[2010_FX4]

I agree with you about the .17 Remington; I took it out on a couple of hunts, but have also since lost interest in it. It is a bit too much trouble in the field, cleaning, etc.

I have a couple of Contenders; a 30 TC and a 7MM BR. But your Mach IV sounds like a blast! If you had some brass to go with that barrel, I might be tempted to try and talk you out of it.

[BarryinIN]

I have it. It's finding it thats the problem. Last year, I finally got to go through junk that had not been explored since we moved here 12 years before. I didn't see it. Some, but nothing close to what there should be.

Besides, I might be afraid to sell that one anyway. My best guess is the inaccuracy and keyholing was from the cases not being fully formed yet...but I still think it should have done better. I'd hate to sell it then the next owner still have it do so poorly.

You may have given me the impetus to start working with it again though.

[BarryinIN]

Savage of course has the accuracy reputation, at least in other calibers. I don't know of many .223s around, now that I think about it.

I'd like to amend that.

A friend has been taking me down to his family's farm about 45 minutes south of here where we can shoot to 600 yards if its dry enough to get out to the right spot, or 300 if we have to stay on higher ground.

Last time, he brought a .223 Savage. I didn't know he owned one until then. He's had it since the late 90s and hasn't shot it a lot, but reloading component scarcity had him thinking about changing that course of action.

The wind was pretty stout that day (21, gusting to just over 30 as I recall) but he was ringing the steel as well as with his .308s. His nephew shot it most, and he is good but not nearly as skilled as John, but he was ringing it regularly in that wind too.

The steel plate was 12", which sounds huge, but thats 4MOA and a 30 mph wind can make you use the full width at least. I was getting about 2/3 the hits he got when I used a Colt AR and an AUG.

[Shannow]

I've got a CZ527 in .223 (well I think it's more likely in 5.56, as the throat you can seat a 63gr ex mil projectile out of the case).

Accuracy is excellent, typically sub MOA, with more than a couple of 3/4" groups. Have played with it out at the range at 600 yards, and can consistently hit a small dinner plate...mate has a Zastava, and has played out to 900 (keyhole city)...either of them, 60gr V-Max shoot well, but are about as long as you can go on 1:12.

Another guy at the range has a heavy barrel Rem 700, and it's the most accurate thing I've shot...first two shots touching, buttsman on the radio "whoever is shooting target 6...do it again", threw me, and made a half inch flier. Composure again, and the next two touched the first two.

[OVERKILL]

I've got a Savage 10 Precision Carbine (heavy barrel), which is a "police" rifle (part of Savage's Law Enforcement series). Came with a good scope and is quite accurate. Has a threaded barrel for a brake (which is a bit funny given the relatively little recoil of the round) or I imagine you could fit it with a silencer where allowed.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10PRECISIONCARBINE

I've been very happy with its performance and consistency shooting even inexpensive Winchester "varmint" rounds (JHP's).